Spaces on luxury Red Sea Trip in October

[Diesel]

Our club has a few spaces available on the Red Sea Liveaboard ‘MV Tiger
Lilly’ for a one week diving liveaboard holiday in October this year.

Boat details:
www.divetours.co.uk/destinations/redsea/liveaboard/tigerlily.htm or
www.olympicholidays.com/diving-holidays/red-sea/liveaboards/sharm-el-sheikh-tiger-lily.html.

The trip is from 16th October to the 23rd and is fully inclusive of
flights from Gatwick, full-board and FREE NITROX.

This is primarily a wreck dive trip, covering the 'normal' wrecks such
as the Thistlegorm, Carnatic, Giannis D, etc., but also the deeper
wrecks of the Rosalie Muller and hopefully, weather permitting, also
travelling further south to the Brothers.

We can cater for all qualification levels of diving from novice through
to technical & there will be at least three divers on closed circuit
rebreathers (including myself and Linda my wife), therefore Sofnolime,
O2 and bail-out cylinders can be made available at additional cost.

The cost of this excellent trip is only £879, including fuel surcharge,
which makes this a bargain!

Regards,
Tony Howard
SameSameDiving.com
***@samesamediving.com

[John Hanson]

Our club has a few spaces available on the Red Sea Liveaboard ‘MV Tiger
Lilly’ for a one week diving liveaboard holiday in October this year.
www.divetours.co.uk/destinations/redsea/liveaboard/tigerlily.htm or
www.olympicholidays.com/diving-holidays/red-sea/liveaboards/sharm-el-sheikh-tiger-lily.html.
The trip is from 16th October to the 23rd and is fully inclusive of
flights from Gatwick, full-board and FREE NITROX.
This is primarily a wreck dive trip, covering the 'normal' wrecks such
as the Thistlegorm, Carnatic, Giannis D, etc., but also the deeper
wrecks of the Rosalie Muller and hopefully, weather permitting, also
travelling further south to the Brothers.
We can cater for all qualification levels of diving from novice through
to technical & there will be at least three divers on closed circuit
rebreathers (including myself and Linda my wife), therefore Sofnolime,
O2 and bail-out cylinders can be made available at additional cost.
The cost of this excellent trip is only £879, including fuel surcharge,
which makes this a bargain!

Fuel surcharge??? Gas is only $2.17 a gallon right now.

[Greg Mossman]

Post by Diesel
Our club has a few spaces available on the Red Sea Liveaboard ‘MV Tiger
Lilly’ for a one week diving liveaboard holiday in October this year.
www.divetours.co.uk/destinations/redsea/liveaboard/tigerlily.htmor
www.olympicholidays.com/diving-holidays/red-sea/liveaboards/sharm-el-....
The trip is from 16th October to the 23rd and is fully inclusive of
flights from Gatwick, full-board and FREE NITROX.
This is primarily a wreck dive trip, covering the 'normal' wrecks such
as the Thistlegorm, Carnatic, Giannis D,  etc., but also the deeper
wrecks of the Rosalie Muller and hopefully, weather permitting, also
travelling further south to the Brothers.
We can cater for all qualification levels of diving from novice through
to technical & there will be at least three divers on closed circuit
rebreathers (including myself and Linda my wife), therefore Sofnolime,
O2 and bail-out cylinders can be made available at additional cost.
The cost of this excellent trip is only £879, including fuel surcharge,
which makes this a bargain!

Fuel surcharge???  Gas is only $2.17 a gallon right now.- Hide quoted text -

Maybe it's a spam surcharge. Spam costs more per gallon.

[Lee Bell]

Post by John Hanson
Fuel surcharge??? Gas is only $2.17 a gallon right now.

Maybe in your world. In mine, it's quite a bit higher than that. I'm
pretty sure regular is still above $2.50, I saw some midgrade as low as
$2.75 yesterday. High test is running close to $3.00. No matter what grade
you like, there's a fuel surcharge for marine use.

Lee

[Diesel]

Post by Lee Bell

Post by John Hanson
Fuel surcharge??? Gas is only $2.17 a gallon right now.

Maybe in your world. In mine, it's quite a bit higher than that. I'm
pretty sure regular is still above $2.50, I saw some midgrade as low as
$2.75 yesterday. High test is running close to $3.00. No matter what grade
you like, there's a fuel surcharge for marine use.
Lee

Firstly,near all boats use diesel not 'gas' or petrol and secondly the
current price of diesel in England is about £1.07 per litre, with petrol
being a little less

Why do Americans believe that the rest of the world pays the same as
you? Fuel in the US has always been, and still is, much cheaper than in
most other parts of the world.

NB. The US gallon is smaller than the UK or 'standard' gallon.
Therefore an accurate comparison would be the litre measure, as this is
based on the worldwide standard SI measure of volume.

The US gallon is only 3.79 litres compared to a UK gallon which is 4.54
litres. This is because, although we both have a gallon as 8 pints, a
US pint is only 16 US fluid ounces compared to the UK pint of 20 UK
fluid ounces.

Based upon your average cost of $2.5 per us gallon that means you are
paying about 66 cents per litre, whereas in the UK we are paying about
USD$1.72 per litre, over two and a half times the cost of your fuel!

That means that a US gallon of fuel of 3.79 litres is about £4.05 in
England or USD$6.5, not the USD$2.5 you're paying.

Even in Europe, although a bit lower than the UK, the cost of diesel is
still much higher than the US, with a litre of diesel in France at about
1.06 Euro, that makes the cost of a US gallon around USD$5.6, still much
higher.

And you wonder why we are always complaining? This is because we're
being ripped off by the oil giants and also on the extortionate taxes!

BTW, the exchange rates I used were based on today's rate on www.xe.com
of 1 Euro = 1.39755 USD and 1 GB Pound = 1.6106 USD.

Tony

[Invisible68]

Post by Diesel

Post by Lee Bell

Post by John Hanson
Fuel surcharge??? Gas is only $2.17 a gallon right now.

Maybe in your world. In mine, it's quite a bit higher than that. I'm
pretty sure regular is still above $2.50, I saw some midgrade as low as
$2.75 yesterday. High test is running close to $3.00. No matter what
grade you like, there's a fuel surcharge for marine use.
Lee

Firstly,near all boats use diesel not 'gas' or petrol and secondly the
current price of diesel in England is about £1.07 per litre, with petrol
being a little less
Why do Americans believe that the rest of the world pays the same as you?
Fuel in the US has always been, and still is, much cheaper than in most
other parts of the world.
NB. The US gallon is smaller than the UK or 'standard' gallon. Therefore
an accurate comparison would be the litre measure, as this is based on the
worldwide standard SI measure of volume.
The US gallon is only 3.79 litres compared to a UK gallon which is 4.54
litres. This is because, although we both have a gallon as 8 pints, a US
pint is only 16 US fluid ounces compared to the UK pint of 20 UK fluid
ounces.
Based upon your average cost of $2.5 per us gallon that means you are
paying about 66 cents per litre, whereas in the UK we are paying about
USD$1.72 per litre, over two and a half times the cost of your fuel!
That means that a US gallon of fuel of 3.79 litres is about £4.05 in
England or USD$6.5, not the USD$2.5 you're paying.
Even in Europe, although a bit lower than the UK, the cost of diesel is
still much higher than the US, with a litre of diesel in France at about
1.06 Euro, that makes the cost of a US gallon around USD$5.6, still much
higher.
And you wonder why we are always complaining? This is because we're being
ripped off by the oil giants and also on the extortionate taxes!
BTW, the exchange rates I used were based on today's rate on www.xe.com of
1 Euro = 1.39755 USD and 1 GB Pound = 1.6106 USD.
Tony

The price you pay for gas in the UK... how much of that is Tax?!?!

Invisible68

[Diesel]

Post by Invisible68

Post by Diesel

Post by Lee Bell

Post by John Hanson
Fuel surcharge??? Gas is only $2.17 a gallon right now.

Maybe in your world. In mine, it's quite a bit higher than that.
I'm pretty sure regular is still above $2.50, I saw some midgrade as
low as $2.75 yesterday. High test is running close to $3.00. No
matter what grade you like, there's a fuel surcharge for marine use.
Lee

Firstly,near all boats use diesel not 'gas' or petrol and secondly the
current price of diesel in England is about £1.07 per litre, with
petrol being a little less
Why do Americans believe that the rest of the world pays the same as
you? Fuel in the US has always been, and still is, much cheaper than
in most other parts of the world.
NB. The US gallon is smaller than the UK or 'standard' gallon.
Therefore an accurate comparison would be the litre measure, as this
is based on the worldwide standard SI measure of volume.
The US gallon is only 3.79 litres compared to a UK gallon which is
4.54 litres. This is because, although we both have a gallon as 8
pints, a US pint is only 16 US fluid ounces compared to the UK pint of
20 UK fluid ounces.
Based upon your average cost of $2.5 per us gallon that means you are
paying about 66 cents per litre, whereas in the UK we are paying about
USD$1.72 per litre, over two and a half times the cost of your fuel!
That means that a US gallon of fuel of 3.79 litres is about £4.05 in
England or USD$6.5, not the USD$2.5 you're paying.
Even in Europe, although a bit lower than the UK, the cost of diesel
is still much higher than the US, with a litre of diesel in France at
about 1.06 Euro, that makes the cost of a US gallon around USD$5.6,
still much higher.
And you wonder why we are always complaining? This is because we're
being ripped off by the oil giants and also on the extortionate taxes!
BTW, the exchange rates I used were based on today's rate on
www.xe.com of 1 Euro = 1.39755 USD and 1 GB Pound = 1.6106 USD.
Tony

The price you pay for gas in the UK... how much of that is Tax?!?!
Invisible68

Most!

[-hh]

Post by Diesel
Firstly,near all boats use diesel not 'gas' or petrol and secondly the
current price of diesel in England is about £1.07 per litre, with petrol
being a little less

Fair enough - - but isn't the diveboat in question in the (ahem) Red
Sea?

As such, isn't the correct question to ask be what the price of fuel
is over in Egypt?

Post by Diesel
Why do Americans believe that the rest of the world pays the same as
you?  Fuel in the US has always been, and still is, much cheaper than in
most other parts of the world.

Capitalism will force the price of the fuel to be the same. What
differs is the magnitude of the local tax that is added. Many USA
residents (perhaps even "most") don't necessiarly realize or
appreciate the magnitude of the local taxes (eg. VAT) added on fuel in
many European countries in particular.

Post by Diesel
The US gallon is only 3.79 litres...
Based upon your average cost of $2.5 per us gallon that means you are
paying about 66 cents per litre, whereas in the UK we are paying about
USD$1.72 per litre, over two and a half times the cost of your fuel!

As per citation (unfortunately, from May 2008):

<http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iCdeo7jySx2GuIbjIbgZwHqFnXNg>

...it states that the price of diesel in Egypt was going to increase
costs by 46% for diesel, which would put it at 1.10 Egyptian
pounds...aka 20 US cents .. per liter.

Based on today's currency exchange:

1.00 USD = 5.58765 EGP

...the current value of that 2008 price would be 1.10/5.58765 = $
0.1968, which is still roughly 20 US cents per liter.

Post by Diesel
BTW, the exchange rates I used were based on today's rate onwww.xe.com
of 1 Euro = 1.39755 USD and 1 GB Pound = 1.6106 USD.

Using that conversion, the 2008 price in Egypt was roughly 0.124 GBP/
liter.

Now while its entirely possible that the prices in Egypt have
quadrupled within the past year ... which would bring them up to
roughly US$ 3/gallon, or 0.5 GBP/liter ... I suspect that we would be
able to find such a news article within Google.


-hh

[Diesel]

This is all rather academic, as the only price that matters is the local
pump price, including all local taxes.

News item: (Egypt doubles price of fuel)
http://news.egypt.com/en/200801031270/news/-egypt-news/diesel-fuel-prices-increased-100-in-egypt.html

That still means that there has been significant increases in the cost
of fuel since the cost of the dive trip was originally calculated and
published in the tour operators catalogue last year.

When you have a 120ft liveaboard boat with two VERY large engines and
three compressors operating for an entire week, covering hundreds of
nautical miles, any cost increase will be significant.

I don't really understand why you're harping on this point anyway,
unless of course you want to book any places on the trip :-), otherwise
it won't affect you.

Also, I'm only a customer, not the booking agent or boat owner, and I'm
only passing on this message and trying to be as complete with the info
as possible including the full cost of this trip, WHICH IS STILL VERY
CHEAP compared to other similar trips!

We need to close this particular matter and, as I did not make these
prices, they were from our tour operator and boat owner, so I can't
answer any more on this specific issue, but I would be happy to discuss
the more pertinent details of the diving if anyone is really serious
about making a booking.

Regards, Tony.

[-hh]

Post by Diesel
This is all rather academic, as the only price that matters
is the local pump price, including all local taxes.

Exactly, which is why I was pointing out that your statements of
"local" (to you) fuel prices in UK are utterly irrelevant to the price
at the pump in Egypt.

Post by Diesel
News item: (Egypt doubles price of fuel)http://news.egypt.com/en/200801031270/news/-egypt-news/diesel-fuel-pr...

Sorry, but that article is Feb 2008, which makes it even older than
the May 08 article that I previously quoted. So not only was your
reported price increase already incorporated into what I worked up,
but I had also worked in the next reported *planned* price increase.

Post by Diesel
That still means that there has been significant increases in the cost
of fuel since the cost of the dive trip was originally calculated and
published in the tour operators catalogue last year.

Which was when? (ie, before or after the Feb 08 price increase)

Post by Diesel
When you have a 120ft liveaboard boat with two VERY large engines and
three compressors operating for an entire week, covering hundreds of
nautical miles, any cost increase will be significant.

Academically, let's assume 2 gallons per mile, a 1000 mile trip, 20
guests to amortize the cost across, and the latest (and highest) fuel
cost we've been able to document, namely 1.10 Egyptian pounds...aka 20
US cents .. per liter)

That's roughly (2 gal/mi)*(~4L/gal)*(1000mi)*(1/20guests)*($0.20/L) =
$80/guest.

But....note that this is the entire cost of all the fuel at today's
prices, meaning that it already includes said "big price increase".
Backing out the reported May 08 projected increase of 46%, it means
that the "before" price was $55/guest, which means that the fuel
surcharge is but $25.

Of course, if the live-aboard isn't sailing the 1000 miles assumed
above, then the numbers come down. Simplistically, if its a 500 mile
itinerary, then the fuel surcharge would be around $12.50/person.

Post by Diesel
I don't really understand why you're harping on this point anyway,
unless of course you want to book any places on the trip :-), otherwise
it won't affect you.

Because I recognize that last minute fills of club-organized charters
can be a good deal, and how such vacancies are handled can provide
guidance as to how good the club is. Even if I can't go on this one,
there will be future trips and future vacancies.

Plus I don't think that an extra $20 here or there is particularly
profound to the cost of such a trip.

Post by Diesel
Also, I'm only a customer, not the booking agent or boat owner, and I'm
only passing on this message and trying to be as complete with the info
as possible including the full cost of this trip, WHICH IS STILL VERY
CHEAP compared to other similar trips!

And here I thought you said "Our Club has a few spaces...", which
indicates that you do have an interest.

Post by Diesel
We need to close this particular matter and, as I did not make these
prices, they were from our tour operator and boat owner, so  I can't
answer any more on this specific issue, but I would be happy to discuss
the more pertinent details of the diving if anyone is really serious
about making a booking.

Actually, if your club chartered the entire boat, then your club is
who chooses the price. And the club can choose to discount the
vacancies to whatever price they want in order to minimize your
members' cost increases ... that's typically why a club tries to fill
such vacancies.

Afterall, if the club wasn't potentially looking at incurring a cost
increase for their own members, then why wouldn't the club wish to not
have a potentially more pleasant week from having a less crowded boat?

In any event, I'll see what your club's asking price is in another 45
days, and if it has been simplified yet to a simple "pay one price",
whatever that may be...and if its organizers have realized yet that
they very well may want to discount the excess inventory to below
what they're paying for themselves (because 1/2 is better than none).
Presently, the £879 doesn't appear to have been discounted at all
versus what I can book right now on my own.


-hh

[MetriRN]

Egypt has subsidized the prices of many commodities for residents and
businesses including the price of bread and the price of fuel. Over
the past year, they have reduced these subsidies (causing protests and
demonstrations) and may continue to do so in the future. The price of
anything in Egypt is in flux, and is subject to the political whims of
the government and the economic realities of the market. I don't
think it's unreasonable for any dive or boat operator to indicate that
there may be a fuel surcharge, given the current conditions. Other
countries have similar issues. Sometimes you just can't pin these
things down. Overall, I have found Egypt to be an outstanding dive
value for the money; with or without fuel surcharges.

Post by -hh

Post by Diesel
This is all rather academic, as the only price that matters
is the local pump price, including all local taxes.

Exactly, which is why I was pointing out that your statements of
"local" (to you) fuel prices in UK are utterly irrelevant to the price
at the pump in Egypt.

Post by Diesel
News item: (Egypt doubles price of fuel)http://news.egypt.com/en/200801031270/news/-egypt-news/diesel-fuel-pr...

Sorry, but that article is Feb 2008, which makes it even older than
the May 08 article that I previously quoted.   So not only was your
reported price increase already incorporated into what I worked up,
but I had also worked in the next reported *planned* price increase.

Post by Diesel
That still means that there has been significant increases in the cost
of fuel since the cost of the dive trip was originally calculated and
published in the tour operators catalogue last year.

Which was when?  (ie, before or after the Feb 08 price increase)

Post by Diesel
When you have a 120ft liveaboard boat with two VERY large engines and
three compressors operating for an entire week, covering hundreds of
nautical miles, any cost increase will be significant.

Academically, let's assume 2 gallons per mile, a 1000 mile trip, 20
guests to amortize the cost across, and the latest (and highest) fuel
cost we've been able to document, namely 1.10 Egyptian pounds...aka 20
US cents .. per liter)
That's roughly (2 gal/mi)*(~4L/gal)*(1000mi)*(1/20guests)*($0.20/L) =
$80/guest.
But....note that this is the entire cost of all the fuel at today's
prices, meaning that it already includes said "big price increase".
Backing out the reported May 08 projected increase of 46%, it means
that the "before" price was $55/guest, which means that the fuel
surcharge is but $25.
Of course, if the live-aboard isn't sailing the 1000 miles assumed
above, then the numbers come down.  Simplistically, if its a 500 mile
itinerary, then the fuel surcharge would be around $12.50/person.

Post by Diesel
I don't really understand why you're harping on this point anyway,
unless of course you want to book any places on the trip :-), otherwise
it won't affect you.

Because I recognize that last minute fills of club-organized charters
can be a good deal, and how such vacancies are handled can provide
guidance as to how good the club is.  Even if I can't go on this one,
there will be future trips and future vacancies.
Plus I don't think that an extra $20 here or there is particularly
profound to the cost of such a trip.

Post by Diesel
Also, I'm only a customer, not the booking agent or boat owner, and I'm
only passing on this message and trying to be as complete with the info
as possible including the full cost of this trip, WHICH IS STILL VERY
CHEAP compared to other similar trips!

And here I thought you said "Our Club has a few spaces...", which
indicates that you do have an interest.

Post by Diesel
We need to close this particular matter and, as I did not make these
prices, they were from our tour operator and boat owner, so  I can't
answer any more on this specific issue, but I would be happy to discuss
the more pertinent details of the diving if anyone is really serious
about making a booking.

Actually, if your club chartered the entire boat, then your club is
who chooses the price.   And the club can choose to discount the
vacancies to whatever price they want in order to minimize your
members' cost increases ... that's typically why a club tries to fill
such vacancies.
Afterall, if the club wasn't potentially looking at incurring a cost
increase for their own members, then why wouldn't the club wish to not
have a potentially more pleasant week from having a less crowded boat?
In any event, I'll see what your club's asking price is in another 45
days, and if it has been simplified yet to a simple "pay one price",
whatever that may be...and if its organizers have realized yet that
they very well may want to  discount the excess inventory to below
what they're paying for themselves (because 1/2 is better than none).
Presently, the £879 doesn't appear to have been discounted at all
versus what I can book right now on my own.
-hh

[-hh]

...  I don't
think it's unreasonable for any dive or boat operator to indicate that
there may be a fuel surcharge, given the current conditions....

Agreed, but its not the dive boat operator who's here promoting the
product, but rather, an intermediary.


-hh

[Diesel]

HH,

Unless you want to book a place on our trip why are you spending so much
time on being pedantic about what is a relatively a small increase in
what is still very well priced!

Get a life!

Oh, and BTW, the price increase is directly charged by the owner of the
fleet of boats, not me, my club or even the UK based travel agent.
These surcharges started last year, so are not a new issue.

My wife and I are paying exactly the same costs as anyone else, and
therefore I don’t have any interest in this in the form of any
remuneration, we simply want to fill spare spaces.

One of the main reasons for this trip is that two of our members are
having an underwater wedding and I don’t think that we would want
someone as boring, tight-fisted and pretentious as you on our trip as it
would spoil our enjoyment and the camaraderie our club has grown over
the last 12 years.

Please desist from responding to this message as I won’t continue this
thread.

Anyone who is genuinely interested in the trip or making a booking is
welcome to contact me.

Tony

[-hh]

Post by Diesel
HH,
Unless you want to book a place on our trip why are you spending so much
time on being pedantic about what is a relatively a small increase in
what is still very well priced!

Because it is curious as to why you're being so persistent in
promoting a trip that's not even discounted one shilling from the
current online price...and claims of zero financial interests.

Post by Diesel
One of the main reasons for this trip is that two of our members are
having an underwater wedding ...

If there's a wedding, then why are you trying to fill the boat (with
complete strangers, no less)?

Post by Diesel
... and I don’t think that we would want
someone as boring, tight-fisted and pretentious as you on our trip as it
would spoil our enjoyment and the camaraderie our club has grown over
the last 12 years.

Sorry, but I only photograph weddings for free if its family.

Post by Diesel
Please desist from responding to this message as I won’t continue this
thread.
Anyone who is genuinely interested in the trip or making a booking is
welcome to contact me.

And yet again with the sales pitch. Thanks, but I'd rather book
direct.


-hh

[Invisible68]

Post by Lee Bell

Post by John Hanson
Fuel surcharge??? Gas is only $2.17 a gallon right now.

Maybe in your world. In mine, it's quite a bit higher than that. I'm
pretty sure regular is still above $2.50, I saw some midgrade as low as
$2.75 yesterday. High test is running close to $3.00. No matter what
grade you like, there's a fuel surcharge for marine use.
Lee

$2.44 per gal of regular... and $2.34 for the mid grade (10% ethonal) here
in Iowa

Invisible68

[Diesel]

Post by Invisible68

Post by Lee Bell

Post by John Hanson
Fuel surcharge??? Gas is only $2.17 a gallon right now.

Maybe in your world. In mine, it's quite a bit higher than that. I'm
pretty sure regular is still above $2.50, I saw some midgrade as low
as $2.75 yesterday. High test is running close to $3.00. No matter
what grade you like, there's a fuel surcharge for marine use.
Lee

$2.44 per gal of regular... and $2.34 for the mid grade (10% ethonal)
here in Iowa
Invisible68

That means that at USD $2.44 per US gallon = about 64.4 cents per litre,
or about GBP £0.40.

At current UK pump prices of GBP £1.07, that makes a UK litre of Diesel
over 2 and a half times the cost in the US, and its only about 20% less
in Europe than the UK, so still over twice the cost of fuel in the US.

Phew!